I feel somewhat obligated to reply to this post, as it seems that it is a good avenue to replace speculation with actual thoughts/feelings.

First things first. I have not up to this point, nor will I ever shun anyone due to the guild tag that they wear. I believe that Unholy Trinity is a good guild that has made some incredible progress. If you will look back, I have only ever said good things about the guild in public forums, and most that you will talk to will say that I have the utmost hope for nothing but success and fun in the future for them.

That being said, I have let some know that I don't agree with some of the policies regarding loot/participation that I've seen In the past. Most members of UT will say that things are going great, and I believe them. I have personally told people that I think UT would be a good guild for them if they like to raid more than one or two times a week.

I have felt (my personal feelings, for what they are) personal animosity towards me from members of Unholy Trinity, however. I've heard more than one person tell me that they have heard from members of UT that the people in my guild are incompetent. And I've also noticed many jabs towards me when in regards to some class specific drops. (When you're known as one of only a very few high level players of a specific class, it very much can seem like jabs and rips are directed to you, this may not be the case, I don't know.)

Even though I may feel ostracized by members of UT, I have never refused to craft or help trade for a piece of equipment that they might need. It does make it hard when you enter a zone with people from a guild you're trying to make peace with, only to have them /shout that "Your guild sucks." And no, that's not me making anything up, more than once, comments have happened in either /shout or /ooc where people have insulted either me or the guild tag I wear. (I have many alts, you never know what whispering you'll hear about yourself until someone doesn't know it's you.)

As for the raid alliance that I am a proud member of, we have always done our best to make sure that we are completely out of everyone's way. We like to play on our limited time schedules, and enjoy what we do. If your time and play style is similar to ours, than you are more than welcome to come along with us. I will even happily raid along with some that I've despised in the past, just ask Slipsliding. (::grin::)

One thing that I am personally getting tired of with this whole ordeal, however, is the thought that only Unholy Trinity is capable of raiding, and if we're not helping them, then we're "harming the server." We are a different crew, with different strategies, and different ideas. I have gladly accepted Lucky's advice on mobs and strategies in the past, and would be grateful for any help any can give us as we try to progress through content. I've also given advice on strategies that we have come up with that seem to work. So, in this regard, we have two full forces trying to complete content, each finding different and interesting ways to do it. This doesn't hurt the server, this helps all of us. We don't horde the drops we get that we don't need, and we have even offered drops to members of UT that have raided with us.

I have no animosity towards anyone. Kwoung, Zindi, Lucky, Brega, and all others in UT are members of the same community that I am. We all simply chose to play the same game on the same server, and any differences in how we go about that aren't that big of a deal.

Honestly, I see no rift. At one point or another, I've considered almost all who play on Test a friend, and that continues to now. Something as silly as raiding different targets on different nights can't really drive a whole community apart, can it?

And Zindi, you have my most sincere apologies about not making it to the Meet and Greet. I had made some bags to give away, and was ripped away because of company. Keth and I haven't been on much lately other than that due to the fact we have a 9 month old, another baby on the way, and we just switched our internet from DSL to cable, which is giving us some fits right now.

And to Kwoung, I really appreciate the voice server that you've put up for the Test community. The only reason I haven't tried it out is because I don't have a mic, and even if I did, I would hate talking on it. I spend most of my day on the phone dealing with customer support issues, and when I get home, I usually just want to not talk for a while.


And the real lesson to learn from all this is just to not assume you know everything about one group or another before you've gotten to really understand what's going on. It's the misunderstandings that are causing more of a rift than anything else.


edit to fix some of my crappy grammar

Yeah but only you have the cool pirate title. I vote for "Turkey Run". =P

Anyway Kella, points taken. It was an unfortunate message delivered at an unfortunate time, which later panned out to be highly suspicious of being true. A comment was made by an participant at the MnG: "Seems only UT is here." (Truth is majority are UT sprinkled with vairous other guild tags that are not FAV.) And yep I reacted.

I will too, take your words for it and let this go.

I completely stand by your statements about Fhir Rhuen, the oldest guild on this server with many many helpful and fun folks. Keep up the good image

One last post, then I'm out of here. this drama stuff is just not for me.

I only read your first response, Zindi, reason: see above. Your memory seems kinda not the best and I'm really just done with all that ... sorry, I really don't wanne call it what I think it is. I should have stopped reacting 3 of Kwoungs Great Manifestos ago. And I feel used, again.

I'm here to play and have fun. Always have been. I never liked being screwed over, I never liked cheating - it kills the fun of playing the game for me... I saw the rift coming and tried to do something about it. For that Lucky got Tran to remove me from a raid (before it ever started). Something Tran later told us had nothing to do with him, it was just" Hey, you know, Lucky doesn't like you. /shrugs". Now that by itself it his good right as raid leader. But they also removed Mur (because he is my husband) and told a few other people who were fed up with this attidute that they might wanne leave, too. You and Kwoung were at that time not in the raid groups. If you think that makes you: standing by me, I'd say... WOW...
I know that a lot of other people left because of the beginning rift, that only became wider with ever raid after that. And mind you, Mur and me were at that time just doing our thing, watching the rift widening, unable to do a thing against it. - sorry, can't blame that on us, too.
I miss you and your wife, Ulgor, I miss Hordo, he was one of the best group leaders there is. He CARED, very much like you do, Ry. That is what makes a great leader. And sorry to burst your bubble, Zindi, I didn't get thrown out of ZCrew, I got "dismissed" from a raid. Zcrew was enough of Hordo's baby that he rather went to a different game than to stick around and see it changed into something he never intended it to be.

He and a few others stood by us. They took offense on how Mur was treated by the raid leadership of ZCrew. Mur foremost, not me. You two didn't do squad, and no, you weren't the only ones. I can accept that people have different priorities and hey, I never thought of me and Mur as the centre of the universe anyway.-), and you are known by the friends you KEEP. Thankfully for us we have some of those around who did more than send a /tell about the weather every once in a while.

Speaking about /tell's ... Since we two are back you, Kwoung, have used me as a go-between UT and Alliance, and I, dumb and nice/naive as I am, always thinking the best of people, have always run to do your bidding.
All the while all you needed was a scapegoat. So please do me a favor: find somebody else whom you can use and kick in the groin as Thank-you. Did I mention I hate being used?

And all the while all that cheap drama goes on and on... I sometimes really wish I had not come back to see to what new heights it is climbing. But then, I'll be dammed to let a great game getting spoiled by it if I from now on can just ignore it.

I'd be the first who would like to get the "old Test community" back, when we all were a big dysfunctional family. I liked it and I would do a lot to have it back, but I think those times are long over. This rift you are now crying over started a long time ago, it started when the big Cheat showed up and bought friends with the stuff he got by one-shot-ing epics. He bought some people right out and made sure that people who don't think he's the best since the invention of popcorn get a bad rep for "causing the server to be split.
With that Test Server started to lose it's innocentce. Sounds dramatic ? I knew you'd like it. Let me be a bit more clear and un-dramatic. Till that point in time things were given on a need-before-greed-basis to whoever needed what we had to give. We didn't check if this person is useful to us before we gave. We gave because every person on test that got better, made all of us better. The rest you can read in Ulgor's post, or if you can get a hold of Hordo, he can tell you, too. Because you seemed to have forgotten...

So, Kwoung, feel free to go on with your cheap, blaming others, drama ... It won't do test any good, but hey, we knew that, didn't we?

All the while: This whole mess could have been over 18 months ago. Instead you profited from it and you still do at least to a part. And now you try to use me as scape goat AGAIN, this time for something I had no part in, except for doing you and Zindi a favor. I'm tired of it. TIRED !
You self rightiously blah and blah and blah ... trying to make everybody look bad, well, everybody who doesn't agree with you at least, and all the while the only problem I see this server has, isn't saying a word, not one word. I have to give it to Lucky, I always was of the opinion that he is smarter than you two and me combined. Gratz on doing all the dirty work, Kwoung. But no, I will no longer help you with that. I'm not doubting that you two might mean good, not for a moment. But your methods and approach need a bit work. Seriously, Lucky slowly starts to look not that bad at all, comperativly spoken.

From now on I'll play my game with my friends - take your politics, dictatorial comments, mud slinging and drama and shove it!
I know it's useless to speak to somebody who doesn't want to listen. My bad for trying so hard for so long.

Purr~

PS: Great to see you are at least still somewhat around, Ulgor. .-)
edited: And Zindi: I don't think it is EVER a good start to anything to Dictate to people that they SHOULD forget something or GET OVER something. That is a personal choice for each individual, you are not in their shoes and you will not get good will from anybody by ordering them to do <whatever>.
On the other hand: somebody disliking somebody else for whatever reason screwing up a server... that is giving far to much credit to one person.
For future reference: Just leave me out of things that involve Lucky, the only person on that whole server I really want to have nothing to do with. If you are not him and need help with anything, or just wanne have some fun that requires a Trouby, holler .-)
And with that I'm outa here. *takes a shower to get the mud out her fur, grabs the bongos and runs to have fun*

Actually purr, Kwoung and I were in the raid. We told the raid that since they kicked you out and we considered you friends, we would sit out the raid as well. And then we left. You were not in the raid then so you might not have known. Ask Tran, though, if that is possible.

Wow Purr, talk about selective memory. Not only were we in the raid and the only ones that left it over what had happened in protest (something I do not think any of your other "friends" did), we had a long chats with both Tran and Lucky about what had happened.

As for this drama stuff not being for you... it is really starting to look like you are one of the major causes of it. Feeding Zin and I obviously false information about how everyone else feels, because of your personal vendetta with Lucky. I knew you hated him, but I never thought you would mislead friends because of it. As for "using" you as a go between, that was a huge misjudgement on my part it seems. I thought you were a friend, knew you were in The Alliance and simply asked you to let them know about the Vent server I put up on the boards they deleted my account from, because I did not want to post the server or the password to their private area publicly. If there is some subversive intent of mine in simply asking you to post a message, I must have missed it.

FYI: Tran did have a lot to do with it, he just doesn't like confrontation is all.

EDIT: Since I am a bit miffed now, I will go on... after our chats with Tran and Lucky about you and that incident, I agreed it was a good call, you can be a real PITA sometimes (but out of respect for you and not wanting to rub any salt into wounds, I just let it drop). As for Mur, everyone agreed that was just a huge mistake and I guess the only term that would fit is, he was collateral damage by reason of association.

I was there when you and Mur were asked to leave Purr. I distinctly remember it because it was one of my first raids ever and I was trying to keep my head down and not look stupid.

Zin and Kwoung did in fact leave the raid over the decision.

Brega

As I understood it, the idea behind a collective raid effort involved these ideas..

Lucky as MA, not RL as a show of us not trying to "take over"

1 night a week. Sat Sun Mon ect... whatever would work best for all.

12 from UT and 12 from The Alliance.

You guys pick your 12 best and we pick ours, together we should be able to cut a nasty swathe through almost anything.

Loot - NBG or as designated by the RL. If more than one person wants and it is justified equaly in regards to NBG then /random 1 1000

Hell I thought it was a pretty good idea myself. But it seems to have met a stone wall. So be it. I think it would have worked but it seems we'll never know.

Brega.

As for everything else anyone may think, feel, assume about me... I want to be perfectly clear about what I care about...

The only thing I give a hoot about (in game) is having fun and this server. People, guilds, organizations, etc... all take a back seat to my involvement on this server in general. I run this board, I was one of the first players on the server, I am the SOE Summit Member who represents the Test Server (what little that means) and I care about our server very much. Others and myself helped build this community, the Test channel, got the private forums at SOE implemented and countless other things for a single purpose... to make Test a viable entity that makes a difference and great place to play. NONE of that stuff I just listed happened on its own BTW, we did it.

Yeah, I voice my opinions loud and clear! If I see something I do not like, I say so and I don't give a hoot who you are. It doesn't matter to me if you are my guild leader, a friend or the associate producer of EQ2 if I think you are screwing up, I will say so. I am way to old to pussyfoot around and pretend the world is rosy when I think it isn't. However, I do try to be as neutral, logical and gain as much information beforehand as possible, when I do.

If you do not agree with me, that is not only fine, it is awesome. I love hearing others opinions when they are logical and valid and have on many occassion, changed my point of view because of it. But generally, I think I am pretty in touch and more sensitive than most to to what goes on around me both in game and RL.

Hope that helps clear up who I am and what I want.

As for Lucky, since his name has been tossed around here quite a bit and he is most definately a central figure on this server I will say this. He like me, doesn't take a lot of crap and that has rubbed a good many people the wrong way over time. But in his defense, he is the ONLY leader this server has had that has stuck around through all the crap they have had to put up with over the years!

Imagine being whined to by half the raid in tells every single time to tried to do anything and putting up with that.

Imagine seeing much of what you gained on your raids leave the server shortly afterwards, so progression became almost futile.

Imagine having to try and be fair to people who were most noticably NEVER pulling their weight and simply along for the ride to get "phat lewts" or to see the sights.

Imagine having to explain instructions, die, explain instructions, die over and over, because even though you were trying your best, half the people never listened.

Imagine trying to help people get resist gear (back when it mattered) by supplying them with raws, rares or the gear itself and they never brought it to raids anyways.. and we died more and more because of that!

Imagine being a central figure and putting up with all the wants, needs, desires of god knows how many players over the years while you were trying to enjoy your own game.

Personally, I give him huge kudos for sticking around, pushing forward and putting up with all the crap and attitudes he has had to. I won't go into the other stuff, but take my word that anything he did, was with the full knowledge, blessing and power given him by SOE in order to help the server grow and move forward, which for quite a long time... was a huge problem. I will risk saying, that whether you like him or not, neither the Alliance or UT would be raiding squat right now with any level of success if it wasn't for him.

(1) This is the first either Ry or I have heard of this.
(2) It would be absolutely disruptive to our raid group, and the server, to start rank ordering who the "top" of anything is..and allowing them to do raids others don't get to do. I wouldn't ever be willing to do it. And, assumeing Ry or I were on the "allowed" list, we'd likely pass our spots over for someone else in the alliance who might be online and uninvited.

After some people send me /tells all over hell about that...

For the last time: I remember very well. I remember all the stuff going on. On the other hand, I'm not clairvoyant and NO, I don't know nothing about anything going on when I was not around ? Is that difficult to get? NOTHING of what you have done or not done ever did anything for us. Clear enough ?

I will NOT let you make me the scape goat for your inability to communicate. Feeding you wrong stuff??? I put every offer you made into the Alliance board, I told you honestly what we think about, we = Mur and me. If you want /feedback from others, how about asking them?
It's bad enough that you tried to use me as snitch.

I'm glad you finally made your point clear. Nice to see the mask down.
As for me and Mur, please spare us the emberassment to ever contact us again. And should you continue to use me as scape goat for a whole server "about to come down" doom and gloom scenario , please continue to use the flames section for that.

Gosh I'm glad people who matter know me better...

Purr~

edited for spelling and 2 missing words.

Use you as a snitch? WTF are you talking about Purr? I just hope your current friends do not get to know you as well as I seem to have. You never represented anything as you and Mur's opinion, you represented it as the way the alliance felt, otherwise I would never had made this post.

Oh hell, I was going to stay out of this but the crap is flowing like wine...and Im just enough of an ass that I cant let that go.

purr: this didn't even really turn into a real 'rant' or 'flame' until your posts

murr: is there really a Murr? I don't ever think I have seen a post, tell or chat that wasn't your 'thoughts' only. Makes me wonder

So why did you come back if you couldn't be civil? Did you get booted from VG from your drama?

Really I thought of you as a friend, way before you joined the raiding forces of test server back then. IIRC you started as your own guild with all your toons, mostly farming and crafting and leveling. You didnt get invited to groups too often because you never knew how NOT to roll on every drop.

Personally, note this is MY opinion and not to be turned into something about my guild, I think all this rage Purr has is over drops she wanted for herself or her bots.

Really I have no clue why Purr had to come back to Test only to try and stir the pot. Hell she wasn't even mentioned in the post to start with but had to turn it into an 'all about her and her feelings' rant. Perhaps she lives for drama to twist everything and make believe the world and Test server is out to get her. Despite my personal feelings about some of her actions in group and raids during the nearly 3 years she has been on Test, she can be nice when she wants to but sure can get 'postal' when given the chance.

I am sure she will jump my ass after reading this, despite my still calling her a friend even though I don't care to group or raid with her because of past and possible future drama.

As for the actual reason of this post:

I have watched the test server grow, dwindle and grow again. I have had my differences with everyone and I never hold it against them and still call them friend. I just don't normally biatch about it on the boards *exception was/is Mheryl* and I try to get along with all, even Purr.

Hate me if you want, put me on ignore, I don't care. But I am tired of all this shit. You don't wanna raid with me fine, don't want to invite me to a raid because of my tag? Fine again.

I think UT is doing a great job and has good people in it. I think Test Server has a great bunch of people! Its just some are here to push towards a goal and others aren't. Thats fine too. Stop the drama, let the posts stop with mine. Really if you read this thread from start to finish, it can kill brain cells!!!!

/nibbles the special places

central figure, hardly, nor would i desire such a label

invent raid, never made that kinda claim, shit im still trying to figure out what it is we are Fing up thats holding us back.

cheating, questionably sure, i was working for prima on a third party media project that was being done on test. iv made no secret of that, did it bring me personal gain, hell ya. but what did that really gain me? a jump start on gear, big Fing deal, means i raided from then up until very recently without getting a damn thing, woo lucky me(no pun intended) how did this piss in your cheerios, im not really sure.

and yes sunrayn the chel drak thing does ring a familiar bell, i was asked to run through the tower series quests to completion with the powers i already had, because nizara was bugged an incompletable at the time, i was ported there by a dev twice to get my quest updates, then i killed chel drak, and looted the earing unfortunatly, by accident, yes i got suspended for 7 days, it was my own fault, if i had been cheating, dont you think i would have gotten more than a slap on the wrist?

do i wish to be the mythical figure around which the server revolves, fuck no, i enjoy the game for its own sake, i enjoy raiding, am i good at it, i think i do alright as the MT, im a terrible raid healer and do high avg dps with my dps oriented classes, i make no claims at being superman, nor will I.

a few people seem to think im using other people to subvert others or some conspiracy bullshit like that, its not the case, yes i offered to "send" some people on one of your alliance raids, i asked if i could come, ya guys said ya were full, awsome, i asked again another time later, was told no, thats fine, i wasnt wanting to come take over, i wanted to raid as one of my other chars for a change of pace, i offered assistance, free of wanting for your loot, no from myself but from some of UT's members who were wanting to raid a night you were and we werent and we didnt have the muscle for anything that night, i dont see that as wrong. i was offering them something to do, and FAV some spare hands, knowing that in doing so id have to change raid venues later in the week, but that was fine.

i never asked anyone to bow down and genuflect(sp?) i ask people who want to join UT raids to come and raid, when they can, i dont impose minimums and blah blah blah, this isnt the military i dont have people in black with whips(well i do but they usually just whip the mob).

im made out to be this great evil monster by a few people, and im a bit confused, purr, the only thing i can think of that iv done to you personaly was the zcrew buissness, that i had a hand in without question, but not as much as you think, how long ago was that?
and on that note, kwoung and zindi did leave the raid that night, they did speak up fairly zealously in your defense and in defense of mur who was unfortunatly collateral dmg, which i agree was unfortunate.

joren, the barbs about paladins come from everywhere, yea iv made my few, but as most people will hear me say beyond the jokes, paladins have there place in the game, and honestly id like to have one in UT they make spectacular off tanks for sigil and amends, in fact on monday i was looking for you cause we had the fabled paladin BP drop off vyemm, i asked naadia(not really sure who that is, alt main ect) but was from veng so i asked if ya were around, aswell as a fairly nice 2hander. but ya werent around.

when we get loot we cant use, im usually holding the raid for a few minutes trying to find someone who can use it, often to little success, but i always try.


and yes we use a DKP system, yes that on outward appearances make raiding with us as an outsider Fing pointless, but being we have guests on occasion whala we have an alternate loot system should that come to pass that its needed, its already there and ready. yay

so dont feed me this "lucky says UT cant or shouldnt or whatever" with whoever group clan village guild tribe pod conclave or individual, i dont give the slightest chunk of fecal matter what my members do with there money, free time, loot, or spare hair gel, its there (afore mentioned things) to whatever they want with, iv never said hey nobody group with tom the mailman, or bob the random hat guy, its none of my damn buissness where and who people spend there time with, if they want to raid with someone else awsome, id prefer if it doesnt conflict timers with our schedule but thats not asking alot. what i would tell them is that they shouldnt roll on loot with you guys, because chances are your regulars will need it( not to imply your all dressed like hobos or any such possible misconstruel(is that a word?) because as someone above said, we are further than you guys are, we tend to have more shots at the items from the zones you guys are raiding as if its good we probably have seen ita few times, but i realize im just sucking in more mud now so im done with this REALLY long foot note), but thats neither here nor there.


and for the record purr, none of this rift buissness as far as i know wasnt in any way related to you directly, as far as i know the animosity i refer to as the rift started long after you had gone to VG. so theres really no need to get butt hurt. in fact i was a little startled to hear you gave me a fairly good recomendation to a new member, and thank you, hes a good guy i really like him, and as i said just yesterday, i like yer cloak it looks sharp.


i really didnt wanna get involved in this thread i was trying to stay out of it, but since i was involved anyhow i figured i should at least come and clear up or muddle up something for my efforts, i say what i mean, and i usually mean what i say, im not a big fan of candy coating, if i tell you to eat shit, i mean eat shit, if offer you raid loot, i do so not to rub it in your face but because id rather see it go to use than the munge bucket, if i invite you to a raid its because i think we would both benefit from you being there, if i dont invite you to a raid its either cause youv declined a few times in the past and i assume your not interested or because i think your an idiot and if ya wanna go, send me a tell, ill either tell ya to eat shit or send you an invite, i dont like playing politics, id rather play horseshoes and handgrenades, at least in that game you know where you stand.